>> america, land of opportunity, and a basic promise.

>> and nation that rewards the effort and determination of every single american. >> so the least of us will have a greater chance to achieve the greatest things. >> and the doors of higher education will be open to all. >> no matter what your circumstances or where you are you are part of the life of our great nation. [applause] >> it's one thing all our presidents agree on, each of their own unique way. >> have a good life. we will see you soon. >> to get that good life, all we had to do was follow the instruction manual on how to do the right thing. study hard, be nice to your brother, go to college, graduate, and voila, achieve the american dream. but at some point -- [sirens] >> the u.s. economy. shrinking >> they're not getting married, they're not

getting homes, and are getting jobs. >> they're looking at 40 years of flat wages. >> those doors to opportunity got harder to open. [laughter] >> this is a big. staggering debt from student loans. >> that old construction instruction manual seems like false advertising. >> the system isn't fair. we tell young people they have to go to college, and they take out loans, and other punished for it. >> borrowing money for the right reason, higher education. >> this is a story about how our basic bargain was broken by greed and politics. >> it was two lines, slipped in under the dark of night. >> it wasn't until it was all over, you went back and said, oh my god. two lines in the bill change the lives of millions of americans. >> in my personal journey to uncover how student debt crush the american dream. >> this lending system is now catastrophically failed. >> it is spun out of control. >> you get a wig in your hands. >> this is not a wig, it's a vlogger. >> and who was secretly behind

it. >> nobody put the name on this one. >> adults tell you have to go to college. >> i did as well as i supposed to and it seems like somebody lied to me. >> traveling the country. >> glad you showed up, man. >> tremendous focus and steely determination. >> it is a problem. does congress even know what it was doing? they're keeping me up all night. >> it was a legislatively manufactured crisis. >> this was a scam. >> it's the greatest robbery in modern american life. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> so how do this whole long saga begin? i worked for years in politics and journalism.

>> blake's --, politics editor at -- . com. >> he is a washington insider who's worked for president obama. blake, what can president obama do to put himself in history books? >> behind the confident demeanor and ill fitting sport jacket, i had a secret. my wife patty and i were almost $200,000 in debt. >> what are you doing right now? >> i'm going to pay my lone. i just got notice that there. >> that's patty. like all of us, patty has made a lot of decisions and life, and maybe not all of them showed great judgment. but deciding to become a psychologist to help veterans with ptsd seemed like a good one. >> and graduate school i thought when i a graduate be a doctor. i get a good job and make a lot of money and plate pay those off a no time. but i didn't understand that pretty much every penny ironed was going to be going to my student loans. like i'm never gonna catch up. >> with four separate loans,

her total payment each month was nearly $2,000. but this isn't just about the numbers. >> the loan companies are certainly evil and pull things all the time, like, i was getting messages saying i was dealing with on a student loan and i wasn't. they make it really confusing, like every month i have to read everything fairly because i'm always suspicious that there's gonna be some sort of secret. >> the whole system seemed really sketchy. >> i feel like one of the lucky ones because i'm able to make my payments, but for some people, it's so much worse. >> eventually patty had to leave the va hospital and go into private practice just so she could keep up with the payments. >> it will affect all of our kids. none of us are saving for our kids futures. you know, it's not about like, maybe it wasn't a great idea to have him, but i don't know. he's really cute, right? [bleep] >> and we're really lucky.

we have good jobs in so many advantages in life. >> get some scholarships, good. >> but what about 45 million other americans with student debt? the news coverage was not encouraging. >> student loan debt in this country is now bigger th rd debt. >> it not only hurts the students. that's our number one concern. it kills the whole economy. >> delaying having kids, they're delaying getting married, they're delaying buying houses. >> i think it's a crisis right now for families and students. >> not just the borrowers, economists and pundits across the political spectrum are warning this could have drastic effect on our economy. >> for that, it is a student loan bubble. >> yes, even him. >> 2.5 trillion dollars and counting. >> crushing student debt. >> is there a story here? to find out, i did what any good journalist would. i googled it in the middle of the night. every opinion column, every quote in a new story, all came down to the same one expert, allen colin, one of the nation 's foremost experts on student

debt, this guy was everywhere except an easy to visit location. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> allen? >> hey, man. watch your step. >> yes. what is it, an ice storm? >> yes. welcome to wisconsin. >> thank you very much. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i hope you like cats. >> they're friendly. >> oh yeah, i can smell them. >> i sprayed lysol, but i don't think it worked. >> so you basically devoted your life to this problem. >> i'm sorry to say that appears to be how it turned out. it has become a 17 year ordeal, a journey. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> after accruing hundreds of thousands in student debt, allen became obsessed with the issue and before it was on the media's radar, he made raising awareness of his life's work.

[bell ringing] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> but it turns out, trying to change an entire financial system can be a lonely fight. >> is this your family? >> this is my family, yap. >> were they aware of the work you are doing? >> yes. i like thing my parents instilled in me the spirit of the happy warrior. keep my chin up during some of the low times during this battle. >> what would you say to this kid, as you look at this younger version of yourself? >> that's actually my brother. >> oh, okay. >> that's you? >> that's also my brother. >> allan's devotion to this issue meant giving up a lot. >> when i first started this i had a good job in the defense industry, i had health care i had house i had many things. but because i decided that the most useful thing that i could be doing with my life was fighting this battle. the lenders pull out all the

stops against our best and brightest for the crime of going to college. this lending system is now catastrophically failing, proactively failed, by all rational metrics and measures. we now owe close to two trillion dollars in federal student loan debt. and, you know, it seems like nobody is really even paying attention to what. so -- >> whoa. there is definitely a story here. but was allan right about its magnitude and that no one was doing anything about it? >> we just have to clear the area of both tires. >> it all seemed so outrageous. >> glad you showed up, man. >> and honestly, so did allen. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> meet jerome. he's the chair of the federal reserve, a fancy way of saying his job is to make sure the economy doesn't stop.

a republican appointee jerome is not known for his bleeding heart or stirring oratory. >> we're not on a sustainable fiscal path. we need to get on one. >> but on student debt, jerome has been surprisingly forthcoming. >> does the high level of student debt create a drag on the economy? >> as to loans becomes larger and larger it absolutely could hold back growth. >> that's the key. it's hard to tell from his jerome like delivery, but hold back growth is literally his nightmare scenario. >> if our college debt or a country, it would be the eighth wealthiest country in the world. >> this is kevin connell. after falling into almost $100, $100,000 of student debt of his own, he wrote two books, exposing the corruption of the student debt system, all by the time he was 21. in one word, how would you describe the student debt

system? >> predatory. >> why? >> because of the conditions students face all their lives. and you must go to college for in order to be successful. people are willing to pay whatever it takes to go to college. >> and prominent economists agree. >> as an economist, the prominent economist that you are -- >> shoot me up -- [inaudible] >> prominent that you are, how big of a problems when you say this is? >> it is a moral problem. we impose this up on our young people. it is a narrative where we tell them, go to school, better yourself, colleges catcher mobility. but as a young person, 17, 18 years old, i did not make an authentic choice. >> i feel like i'm done everything right, going up, being told to go to school, work hard, you can do whatever you want. and you can have whatever you want. and then i am like, okay, i'm 31. what happened here? ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i talk to people from different communities across the country to see how student debt had affected them. >> adults would tell you you have to go to college. a college degree would mean

getting a good paying job. and then you buy a house, and you live the life you want. it seems silly to imagine that now. >> i served eight years in the united states air force. it's like i did what i was supposed to do. i contributed to my country. and yet student loans put me in debt that i thought would be avoided by joining the military. >> they all did what they were supposed to and thought they were achieving the american dream. >> what does the american dream mean to you? is that a thing? >> the american dream now is to have zero dollars for a lot of people. i mean, so many people have negative net worth. >> but if you can't reach that american dream of having zero dollars, don't worry. the media has your back. >> almost one third of all college students are using their student loans to pay for their spring break trips. >> it's important for them to learn this lesson early on of personal responsibility. >> buying boot straps, these

are adults that we're talking about. they need to realize that when they take out that debt, they are liable to pay it back. >> someone might say, listen, you took out a long, you pay it back. it's simple. don't be irresponsible. what do you say to that? >> i think i would've said that totally makes sense. eight years ago when i was 17. >> let's not forget, these are kids being told to sign on the dotted line. no parental consent necessary. >> my 17-year-old self was very unprepared for all those details. >> but some in the media say that's no excuse. >> the students do exactly what they were getting into. >> you know what you are getting into. when someone says that, they don't get it. >> most people don't know what they're actually signing up for. there's a whole series of gimmicks played in the industry that attempt to cloud it with the actual picture looks like. >> the lenders become very creative in how they can inflate alone. >> what they do is, they give you the teaser rate to start. it's artificially low. >> that's right, college lenders are usually classic first ones free move. used on everything from streaming services to cocaine. or so i am told.

but that's not the only trick up their sleeve. >> a lot of fine print. it's overwhelming. >> maybe you make an underpayment one month and they pyramid your fees until you don't know it. >> if you default your wages can be garnished. they can come in and say we're taking 15% of their wages without any due process at all. they do the same thing with social security. >> so if you're a teenager signing the papers, why did you not listen to the adults in the room who were there to guide? you remember your guidance counselor? have a wreaked of coffee and pretended to know your name? >> i truly don't think guidance counselors, my parents, family, i don't know anyone that understood the true detriment. >> okay, blake, come and bring me that banana. stick the banana right in between the foot. >> like this? >> yes, position it the other way. >> oh, like this? >> right, but make sure that

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the real reason i came to see marcella? her daughter's student debt was so out of control she was running an active business creating erotic videos to help pay it off. >> the reason i came to see - every day i wake up, the purpose of my day marcella? her daughter student debt was so out of control she was creating erotic videos to pay it off. >> every day i wake up, purpose of my day being to make sure my children have a better life. with my oldest daughter, i did prepare for the first four years of college with her.

i started when she was in kindergarten. i was very young when i had her. i did not know she was going on to go for her masters. i was not prepared for that. i did not know that she was one are gonna want to go to law school. but once she told me about, it i just encouraged her, i'm, like yes, what do you need to do? >> when marcellus mother needed to do was taking out a 46,000 dollar loan. >> i'm trying to work with her because, after she finishes it's going to be over $200,000. >> wait a minute. marcella started out with a 46,000 dollar loan and now it's john doe thousand dollars! >> most of my salary is going into paying off my student loan during now but even with that after four years of residency i'm going to be in $50,000 more debt. >> i have talked to people and they say, i have been paying my student loans for years, and i making all my payments, on time. and yet, i owe more now than i did at the beginning. what is that? >> that is the phenomenon of compounding interest.

>> okay, let us stop here for a second because compounding interests can be pretty tricky to understand. here is what you need to know. while most loans make you pay a small amount of interest, compounding interest charges you interest on interest, making your balance grow exponentially and quickly get out of control. >> if i were the only person with student debt, i may say, you know, gosh, i really messed up here. but then, when it gets like 45 million people, i'm like, okay, maybe this is systemic. maybe this isn't just a couple of people who made bad decisions. maybe this is actually an orchestrated spam. >> i'm convinced that the system was rigged to create the very crisis that we are in today. >> that is when i learned about a piece of this puzzle and that got very little attention, but would change everything. >> if you could point to one thing about the student debt system, one thing you would change, what would it be?

>> bankruptcy. >> what do you mean? >> it is for all intents impossible to discharge student loans and bankruptcy. >> wait, i thought that all debt needs to be discharged in bankruptcy -- >> except for student loans. >> in 1998, they essentially took bankruptcy protections permanently away for all-time, from federal student loans. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> could this be true? and isn't bankruptcy a bad thing. >> i think the first time i heard the word bankrupt wasn't wheel of fortune. the audience goes oh, and you lose all your money. and i just assumed that something that i don't want. >> many clients post bankruptcy go on to buy houses, which they're never able to do. i have had two clients actually become multimillionaires. >> how hard would it be for me to discharge my student loan debt through bankruptcy? >> it is impossible. i guess bankruptcy is reserved only for the truly neediest cases.

all right, to be fair, they do deserve a fresh start, mostly. ♪ ♪ ♪ but student bowers deserve that option, too. now, that doesn't mean everyone is going to run out and file bankruptcy, or that they even should. there is something much bigger at play here. >> in the absence of the threat of bankruptcy, you open the door for widespread abuse by the lenders. >> without bankruptcy as an option, lenders are now fervently lending out as much money as they can to anybody who wants to apply because repayment is guaranteed. it's up to the student to pay it back no matter what. there is no bankruptcy option option. >> the lenders no, you can't run, you can't hide. so, this essentially gives them a license to steal. >> one lenders have no incentive to restrict who they are lending to, or how much to loan out, guess what happens to tuition costs? >> the colleges raise their price, essentially, at well.

>> and you're paying for it, and college lenders know that. so, the more obscene the tuition, then the more ridiculous that gimmicks that colleges play, the richer college lenders become. >> from just having that threat of bankruptcy forces that lenders to behave irrationally and with a modem of good faith. >> and without those bankruptcy protections we are left with a self perpetuating system of greed. you know, from the outset, this was a legislatively manufactured crisis. >> it was the 1998 reauthorization of the higher education act. >> the senate will not vote on the adoption of the conference report accompanying hr six. >> mr. biden, mr. bingham, mr. durbin, mr. fine gold, mrs. feinstein -- >> was there an uproar when this happened? was this a big headline at the time? >> there was no headline. in fact, i don't think most congressman even knew that it

happened until probably weeks, months, or even years afterwards. >> a bill i will sign in a few moments will enhanced the economic strength of america. >> they did this massive change to the economy that would have effect all these people and no one noticed? >> it was very sneaky what they did. it was two lines slipped in in conference committee under the dark of night. >> there it is, the two lines of legal mumble jumble that would alter the economy for multiple generations. almost entirely -- >> taking the bankruptcy code says if it represents an undue hardship, you can get a discharge. >> undue hardship? that shouldn't be too hard to prove. >> the courts have interpreted that saying that means there is no hope of repaying. >> what do you mean the supposed to be no hope? >> they have to have such a condition that you would never want to have to get the student loan discharged. >> what do you mean? what kind of condition? >> well, they may have serious

cancer, physical disability. >> let me understand this. the way to get rid of student debt right now is to have cancer? that's probably the best way? >> well, unfortunately, that would be a help. >> okay, who is responsible for this craziness? >> there is no name that i can find attached to who did it. nobody seems to be willing to step up and take credit for it. >> wait, wait -- nobody put their name to it? we don't actually know who did this? >> now. it was like a whisper in the wind. i don't know. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> this is something that bears repeating. according to allen, everything from ballooning student debt to spiraling college costs can be traced back to this one to line provision in a 1998 law, and no one knows who's responsible for it. >> what? i would like to know who slipped these two lines, and what was the goal, taking bankruptcy away. i think it was a true two trillion dollar question. and i think that we need to do

something to make good. >> we now have a who done it on our hand, and a mission right in my wheelhouse. i would find and confront the person responsible and demanded they help me get this disastrous law changed. ♪ ♪ ♪ we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ step up. prep up. to help keep you free from the risk of hiv. descovy for prep, the smallest prep pill available, is a once-daily prescription medicine that helps lower the chances of getting hiv through sex. it's not for everyone. descovy for prep has not been studied in people assigned female at birth. talk to your doctor to find out if it's right for you. descovy is another way to prep. descovy does not prevent other sexually transmitted infections, so it's important to use safer sex practices and get tested regularly. you must be hiv-negative to take descovy for prep. so, you need to get tested for hiv immediately before and at least every 3 months while taking it. if you think you were exposed to hiv or have flu-like symptoms, tell your doctor right away. they may check to confirm you are still hiv-negative. serious side effects can occur,

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that would mean going back to when the fateful provision instead, start small with nicorette, was passed. the year was 1998. - the yankees have done it again. - the yankees had just won the world series. john glenn had just returned to space... - nbc's science correspondent... - and an important scientific breakthrough was just announced. - mike byerly was one of the more than 4,000 men who volunteered for the trials of the anti-impotence drug

called viagra. he was very satisfied with the results. - speaking of tireless stallions who just won't slow down... - steve kornacki, who has gotten some rest, >> that would mean going back is back at the big board tonight. to when the faithful provision was passed. -- >> speaking of tireless stallions won't slow down -- >> steve kornacki, who has gotten some, rest is back at the big board tonight. >> msnbc's steve kornacki is not just a master of the election night big board. or a khaki pants icon. he's also an expert in 90s politics. >> this bill was signed by clinton october 1998. what's going on in his world at that time? >> he wanted to get things done in 1998. every president wants to get things done, but clinton had a particular imperative because of impeachment. >> the clinton strategy in 1998 was to say this whole thing with monica lewinsky was a personal thing. and what i'm trying to do as president is the business of

the people. he was doing the business of the american people as everybody else in the political world was focused on this personal thing. >> pretty good headlines, right? higher education. bill sounds like clinton just wanted to have a nice happy press release to take change the topic instead of talking about the problem he's having. >> i think the second piece of it is bipartisan, because it wasn't just looming impeachment, the other thing that he was facing was the midterm election a month later. and those things were linked -- >> right. >> so, the idea that one month before the election, you could sign a bipartisan piece of legislation, just the optics of that as they are, they're just going to work on both sides. >> you, expert 1990s politics guy, steve kornacki, did you have any insight into had inserted this provision. we're trying to figure this out. could you even hazard a guess? >> i have no idea, but i think you're asking a good question. how did we get here?

because it was not on the radar. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> even 90s politics expert steve kornacki doesn't know. well, in his defense -- >> you know, be honest with me. is it hard to describe things without the use of the big board? >> it's freeing. the air outside the studio, too. >> maybe i just need to talk to someone who was in the room when the bill was written. a longtime aide to ted kennedy -- >> hey how are you? >> jane helped write the bill. >> we're gonna talk about the 1998 higher education act. >> am i? >> surely should point be to who did it. >> it will be fun. >> i can't guarantee that. >> please don't put that kind of pressure on me. so there must have been a lot of good stuff in this bill, because it passed unanimously. what are some of the highlights about the bill that you're most proud of? >> i love title two. as a recovering teacher myself. >> jane is going to get deep into technical jargon here.

>> we thought it should be a pbo. >> the takeaway that was the lot of programs to help teachers. >> additional professional development. >> and kids. and they were smart about a bunch of things. >> in 1998 nobody was thinking about distance learning. >> but, all right, i'm gonna ask you about one particular provision that some feel has not aged well. >> okay. >> two lines were inserted into that multi hundred-page bill that made it so that federal student loans could not be discharged through bankruptcy, making a basically one of the only debts but you can get rid of through bankruptcy. >> so now you're going to get into the weeds of the sausage making ladies legislation. you have to separate sometimes when you're working on the hill. this is when i feel personally and this is what i have to do is part of my job. personally i think it was crazy that you can't discharge student loans. i think it was something that was pushed out of control by

somebody's miss perception. >> some member had an idea that there was fraud and bad acting going on. people were going to school and racking up debt and living high on the hog on the program. >> this may sound crazy, but it's true. and the 70s, a formal study was commissioned to see if people were gaining the system and recklessly declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying the student loans. what the study found was that less than 1% of borrowers or virtually no one was actually doing this. >> if we were to try to find the person who is behind it, do you have any leads or tips? where would you go if you were me? where would you start this process? >> i don't know that anybody would take ownership of this. nobody put their name on this one. so whoever was doing it at the

time did not want to have center stage. i couldn't even give you a hint. >> got it. >> this mystery person really seems to be hiding. >> mister speaker i yield to the distinguish gentleman. >> one thing where he in politics taught me is the politicians usually don't shy away from attention. >> [inaudible] >> but no one was taking credit for the begnaud bankruptcy clause. through a weird exercise i subjected for dave to. dave, i am going to name two different types of dance. you're going to tell me which one is easier. are you up for a lightning round. turn this way? worlds saddest game show. >> put some time on the clock, and here we go. unpaid taxes or student loans?

>> unpaid taxes. >> business debts or student loans? >> business debt. >> bad checks or student loans? >> bad checks. >> car accident claims or student loans? >> car accident claims. >> credit card or student loans? >> but it cards. >> gambling debts or student loans? >> gambling debts. >> excessive shopping or student loans? >> excessive shopping. >> election agency accounts or student loans? >> collection agency accounts. >> thank you for playing. >> i hope i passed the audition. >> that's pretty telling, though right? it's everything but student, loans it's insane >> that's why there's so many people suffering is getting people into indentured servants. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> this is where i reached probably the darkest moment in

my life. it's a parking lot of a cheap hotel. it was 11 years ago. >> i met scott, whose death story began 20 years ago, when he achieved his lifelong dream of becoming a teacher. >> i love being a teacher. it is very fulfilling. but it didn't make enough money to make my student loan payments. i started out with 35,000 dollar loan. somehow i now or hundred and $150,000. i couldn't provide for my family the way they deserve me to provide for them. that really screwed with my head, to where i felt like an utter complete failure. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i remember thinking it was being in the water after you fell off a boat and you're treading water and treading water and both keep going by you keep thinking, maybe this boat will throw me a lifeline and i'll be all right.

and then every time the boat just kept going and i remember thinking, how long can i tread water before i drown? that's what i really started to think about taking my own life. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> eventually, i called my wife. she reminded me that the kids need me, they love me. i'd like to think that i found courage at that point. and i started to feel hopeful. because i realized i just have to accept that this debt is probably never gonna go away. you just have to learn how to live anyway. you just have to keep going. i almost didn't. ♪ ♪ ♪ redit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college, and no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. the high interest... i felt trapped.

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download the app and earn free food with every order. ♪♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. - i think it's important that people be able to borrow to make what may be the most important investment of their lives, which is in their education. - remember this guy? [tape rewinding] we don't allow student loan debt into english for you. - we don't allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. - right. - i'd be at a loss to-- to explain why that should be the case. [upbeat percussive music]

- was this even good lawmaking? - nice to see you. - ari melber is msnbc's chief legal correspondent. , okay i got >> was this even though sometimes it seems he has a different beat entirely. good lawmaking? >> nice to see you. >> eric melber's msnbc's chief legal correspondent, though sometimes it seems he has a different beat entirely. >> no greater authority than says my glove compartment is locked in my trunk is in the back. i need my rights you needed a warrant for that. there's no such thing is halfway crooks. we know that truth from the great poet of >> and if you get good kind of campaign time manse reform, money won't be a thing because it will be a thing. >> hundred percent. >> but i don't like it if i doubt bling bling.

>> so if you have a lot of us has virtually anyone in the country can fire for file for bankruptcy and go to their debt, everyone except for one group of people? people a student loans? that seems to me messed up would be my term. >> for me i look at is a lawyer and say if bankruptcy is available for all these other groups, so that they could go on and be, quote unquote, productive it's available for corporations, private banks, business people why wouldn't it be available to a nurse? >> it's keeping me up a night. i'm trying to unpack it. it seems like it's part of 1000-page bill, these two lines. there's two words, undue hardship. okay, you can discharge these debts in bankruptcy if you can show that you can have an undue chenin hardship from your lawns. hardship from iran's. i wanna tell you right now, i bet of people around the country, they are pretty much think they have undue hardship. no one is like this hardship is due. that seemed so vague, almost as if to be meaningless. is whether or not people can get the same benefit that random anonymous corporation the mic attribute less to society than a nurse, that's a

decision i think is subject to the politics and the power in the time that decision was made. i know what you're that's what you're looking at. i think it's a very fair question to reopen. >> but in order to reopen it, we needed to understand how this little notice of massive change happened in the first place. i needed my own deep throat, or, you know, something that sounds less gross. >> so this is what you learn in school. the house and senate have to pass the same version of the bill for to become law. so when you go back to the beginning and look at this -- >> so i called in a favor. >> its version sentences vision and send it back down to the house. >> so that's a new bill, though, they're standing. >> this is ryan mcconaughey, a top policy adviser from my days on capitol hill, and no one in d. c. knows more how a bill becomes a law than him. >> conference committee, and then when they were at this point in the line, then you luke back to me >> but it

quickly became clear that this was really complicated. >> back to the senate. >> oh lord. >> then you head up here. the white house to get signed. >> you could see why this would be a little hard to follow or confusing for anyone who doesn't work in congress for a living. i mean it's three, 58 steps. here the provision we're talking about. the basically said you can get student loans through bankruptcy. when do we notice? >> the first time it pops up his back here in this little detour to the rules committee. >> what does that suggest? >> that suggests it was part of a managers amendment, which include smaller things than individual members belmont want during the time to be a debate so because they're not controversial. >> so you can slip it in we are a ton of public discussion, with a lot of attention? >> this was a big step. now we knew when it came in and that it was slipped in where it was less likely to be noticed. this enabled ryan to come up with three top suspects. >> this is chairman of the committee, sponsor of the managers amendment, bill good laying. when this person pops up is under his name.

>> so the first time we see any mention of this provision, it's in the managers amendment, any controls that amendment? >> right. doesn't necessarily mean it's a. is >> not a smoking gun but -- >> he would've been in a position to make it happen. >> yeah. >> making this one the most interesting things bill good ling has ever done. >> it keeps popping out of my ears. >> a moderate republican from pennsylvania, he was a former superintendent who was known for being great with money. next is buck mckinnon, chairman of the higher education subcommittee. he would've had first crack at the bill. he might have been plausibly aware of what was in the managers agreement. he even looks like he's kind of happy that he got away with something. >> i knew buck. not only was the california republican on the subcommittee,

he was part of the powerful armed services committee. >> i think we would rather have our enemies die than our troops. >> where he was such a good friend to defense contractors he developed a lovely reputation. >> third name, senator jeffords, senator jeffords was the chair of senate health committee, in charge of hired occasion. >> jim jeffords best known for switching parties in 2001 in swinging control to the democrats as well as for being part of the hottest act to ever grace a stage. >> every heartbeats true ♪ ♪ ♪ for the red white and blue. there's never a boast or brag. >> he is actually on record talking about this provision at the end of the process he acknowledges some people are disappointed that it's in the bill but that it was needed to help pay for the overall cost of the bill. >> jeffords says that? >> he does. >> so he's defending the bill publicly? >> he's defending it and he's acknowledging there's agitation

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i screwed up. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. funny coincidence. we were doing an interview about student debtheck. for a documentary, and look what we see. >> this is a mighty big this is a crazy coincidence. coincidence. we were doing an interview about student debt for a documentary, and look what we see. this is a crazy coincidence. we're shooting a documentary about student debt. so what you guys called?

can you get him to stop for a sec? tell me, you guys, when you hear? for what's your cause? who are you? what's going on? >> we're the 45 million, and where organizations working to cancel student loan debt. >> i have been focused on the bankruptcy it's you, but another fix was gaining even more momentum. >> president biden says he's willing to forgive tenthousand dollars in student debt loan. >> joe biden answered or announced a plan that some in his party said didn't gold far enough. >> we are proposing that cancellation for up to $50,000. >> others wanted more. >> biden can sign a piece of paper in cancel all the federal student loan debt. >> who here has student debt?

how much do you have? >> too much. >> i have 40,000 everywhere graduated. >> and you have any regrets waited. >> i get about 1:40. >> how do you invest in a future when you're constantly paying for the past? ♪ ♪ ♪ >> but not everyone in the media was saying the same tune. >> does the debt hop on the back of the unicorn and fly away? >> if we're willing to cancel student loan debt, why can't we cancel credit card? >> student loan bailouts are not gonna teach the students fiscal responsibility. >> why should i have to pay for that my neighbors dumb daughter? >> okay, at this point, it may be worth clarifying some things about student debt cancellation. >> somebody is going to have to pay this money back. >> there's a lot of people confusing the issue. >> shirking responsibility off of our backs into the backs of tax payers. >> canceling debt doesn't mean that the taxpayers are picking up the tab or anyone is paying for somebody's dumb daughter, as this person would say.

>> are the taxpayers going to have pay the debt back? no. one thing we misconstrue about the federal judge a budget is that it zero-sum. the federal government diverged resources to different sectors of the economy bas on the decisions they make. >> with student debt canceled, the money that would have gone straight to the government instead flows out into the economy. think of it as a stimulus. like the ppp loans. >> these are loans that turn into grants. you use this to pay your workers. we want you to have a business that you can reopen quickly. >> most of those loans will never be paid back. >> how do we always have funding for things that are deemed too big to fail but people, the american citizens are not considered too big to fail? when i can't do something for my home or my family, it impacts my community, because that's less money going into my community. >> so by canceling the debt they are putting resources in the hands of young people which will not only facilitate their own well-being, but it will facilitate ingenuity. >> there are a lot of students who come to my office hours who say i'm really passionate about x. but i'm not gonna do that because it doesn't pay. i'm gonna graduate with so much

debt i should probably just take a job where i'm guaranteed to make money. when you're constantly thinking about the price tag and not the passion, that's where something is gone wrong. >> she had a good point. thanks to student debt, millions of dollars or prevent prevented and contributing to society for financial reasons. >> my mom actually passed away from cancer and so i want to be able to do what other physicians have done for my family. >> vivian worked hard and had a dream of good married to her community. >> i want to work in a clinic with low resources, and that's where my heart has always been. but when i'm looking at potential jobs for after i finish my residency, i have to consider, with this salary, can

i actually pay off my loans? can i afford to take that job that would be more fulfilling, that would be a public service. i want to be able to help but my hands are tied. >> vivian just wants to get back to society, but some in the media see it differently. >> this is a give away to millennials who had their parents and family and society pay for their -- their entire life. >> i'm tired of people saying i spent $80,000 on, i-75,000 of them and student debt. then go get a job. >> the more i looked into this, the more clear became this issue often caused a stir because politicians in the media hate millennials. >> toughened up and don't run to your safe space every time someone says something you disagree with. >> they seem to blame them for almost everything. >> 40% of millennials don't say they don't eat cereal anymore because it takes too long to clean up. >> dallas police facing a gas

shortage and the chief is saying millennials are to blame. they say millennials are also to blame for the decline of casual dining venues. >> millennials really killed casual dining? >> this is a real life millennial. what do the older generations get wrong about millennials? >> oh my gosh, everything. i think people associate the millennial generation with young people and it's like, sure. >> we've got to cancel this whole thing. >> behind this offensive despicable foul mouth is a tireless researcher who wrote a book about a millennial. so she could figure out what the fuck was going wrong with the right generation.

>> i think everyone thinks this generation is narcissitic. okay narcissism, i get, it i'm probably and one of those millennials, and complain about the world too much, and i mean we are overeducated but that's not necessarily paying off in the same way that it paid off for them. i don't want to take away from our parents and our grandparents have lived through wars, but we grow up with not only 9/11, i graduated and there was a recession, and then there was a recession again, and in the same time we are still being sold the same american dream that our parents were told. we were like it's not good enough anymore. >> older generations as i paid for college. right, college was $2,000. a year. so now it's 50 to 65,000 dollar range. you haven't bought a book yet. >> many have characterized this is a millennial or gen z issue, and in fact the fastest-growing constituency of those who owe student debt are 50 plus. >> that's congresswoman ayanna pressley. she wanted to clear up some misconceptions about who is really affected by student debt. >> i have seen uses citizens in

my district living on fixed incomes, 76 years old, still paying those student loans. it's a gender justice issue, the women disproportionately bear the union black student borrowers and five times more likely to default on the loans than our white peers. so it's a racial justice issue. >> i think especially black americans have been told the way to achieve the american dream might be education is the way for a leg up. if you want to acquire social capital, if you want to make more money. >> if you want to see success in america, go to school, and we are doing that. but we have started out behind. we still get job discrimination, we still get denied for mortgages at higher rates. so i think being a black millennial means that we get all the shit, can you say shit? >> well you keep doing, it so i don't know.

>> that reminds me. who the fuck was responsible for the obliteration of the american dream? i needed to go back to our whodunnit and narrow down our list of suspects. i got a mysterious call from kevin saying he had some high-level intel regarding my mission. i asked him to meet me by the washington monument. kevin, you know, to add to the intrigue. >> my man. you have a lead for me? >> i think it was buck mckinnon. >> how sure are you? >> all evidence points in his direction. out of anybody in congress, mckeon had the best known motive. he was the recipient of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from college lending companies. he had a lot to gain personally by supporting key legislation on their behalf.

>> how do you uncover this stuff? >> public records. you can go in and see. he was the primary sponsor, not just a cosponsor but the primary sponsor of the bill. so you start connecting the dots, where is the money coming from and where the motives for paying him that money, and it's a perfect fit. but the real key, to me is, he also sponsored a legislation that helps privatize sally may, one of the biggest student loan donors in the country. at the end of the day it's like looking for a serial killer. the same guy keeps showing up at a different crime scenes, and eventually the mystery is taken out of it. we've got our guy. good luck. >> thank, you man. >> over the next few months, i made myself a leading expert on buck mckeon. >> welcome back to our witnesses. any questions? >> throwing myself into research, i watched everything i could find. including this beautiful promotional video a local tv station presented to buck.

>> mbuck was born september 9th, 1938, to howard and vivian mckeon. >> i learned so much about his roots, i could work for ancestry. com. >> dad called me his little buckaroo. >> with a dulcet tones of back haunting my dreams -- i had to fly to his old congressional district to investigate the suspect further. which is why i found myself in a nondescript strip mall in southern california. >> where are we? >> we are in the santa clarita area, north of los angeles, and this is where howard and fills western wear used to be. >> this is patrice apodaca, a former journalist from the los angeles times who has home to a retail chain so well known it appeared in a special tribute video.

>> howard and phyllis was a retail chain owned by the family of buck mckeon. all kinds of boots, shirts, ten gallon hats, and they did very well. they expanded in the 90s, quite a bit, all over the western states. i think they had up to 50 to stories at one point. and then things went south. they hit some bad times. >> they had some bad times, then what happened? >> they filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy. >> that's right. in 1996, buck mckeon's family business took advantage of the old american right, the ability to get from under your debt. wow. so why would his committee deny

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mhm. cool...i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ - you know, i think there's a misperception that people have that bankruptcy is something that lazy people or people who just aren't good at managing money resort to. >> i think there's a but overwhelming majority of them misperception that people have the bankruptcy is something that lazy people are people who just aren't good at managing money resort to, but the overwhelming majority of them were the victims of bad circumstances. >> long before working for john mccain in washington d. c.,

this conservative economist worked for his dad gym back home in small town illinois. >> my father was a bankruptcy lawyer and i spent a couple of summers working for him and saw what he was doing. i saw was helping a lot of people. >> there are people who did bankruptcy. usually they came to me as a last resort after being humiliated and sore forth by collection agencies and stuff like that. >> in the 1970s my father put an ad in the journal star advertising services at a price well below what other bankruptcy lawyers were charging. >> i advertised how cheap i was. >> when my dad advertised about student loan relief, that made my dad a pariah and was attacked on local tv stations, in the journal star, local bankruptcy judge at the time referred to him in court as a sheister. >> this is the same panic to

lead to that old 1970s study about whether students were gaining the system. they weren't. but that didn't stop the critics. >> so my father got a lot of attention, not just there but throughout the states, and politicians were outraged that my father would dare advertise such a thing. but it did play a role in getting state congressman to tighten the state bankruptcy laws. >> they had worried that bankruptcy rights were removed because of the ruckus he caused. >> this is part of his legacy. he really believe this should not be any exception in the bankruptcy code for student debt. >> they're supposed to have a chance. that's the whole idea of bankruptcy. start all over. give them a shot. >> if you're going to exclude just this one debt, which for many people as by far the largest yet they ever incur, then the whole purpose of bankruptcy is kind of negated. >> ththe government says so many things that are stupid and

unbelievable. >> speaking of which, buck mckeon was ready to talk. i wasn't going to let anything stop me from holding his feet to the fire. i was angry and determined. and surprisingly hungry. >> satisfied with capturing some of the wall art, i provide myself to meet the former congressman face to face. >> hi, mister chairman, thank you for your time. >> have a seat. >> enough was enough. it was time to talk to this cowboy. i was ready to rake him through the coals. >> thank you so much for your time. you have had such a storied career. i'm looking at all the seals on the wall and all these things you have. in 1998, what was your position at that time? >> in 1998 i was chairman of

the subcommittee over post secondary education training and lifelong learning. >> something that keeps coming up is the higher education act, especially the reauthorization in 1998. i think it says you played a key part in that. one of the offsets we noticed was a provision to make student loans not dischargeable through bankruptcy. i wonder if you can recall where that policy idea rejuvenated and how you are able to get it in the bill. >> i don't remember. in fact, that was a pretty big bill. well i don't remember all of the details. >> you don't recall that that was a thing your pushing? >> no, it wasn't something i was championing or had strong feelings about one way or another. >> how could it not be buck? all signs pointed to him? >> but would you agree that in your bill in 98, that's when they barred discharge ability for student loan debt? >> like i, say i didn't

remember that, but i would definitely say it would be good to re-look at that. >> wait, what? >> that is a problem. >> you think so? >> yeah. it's a real protection for people. i have understanding and compassion for people who have loans and people can't pay them off. and in fact i think that will be one of the next big things that the country has to face. but i think that's definitely a time to revisit. >> what was happening? i'd spent months trying to track down who is responsible for this provision. >> it's a tough thing. >> and buck mckeon was suspect number one. now he was literally echoing my own thoughts back to me. >> i just think it would be a good to look at. >> hold on.

this could actually be a good thing. if buck mckeon, the key sponsor of the bill, seems to want to change it, maybe the person i was searching for would, as well. but that mystery person was still a mystery. and i was back to square one. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪ customize and save. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ mucinex nightshift fights your worst nighttime symptoms so you can get to sleep and wake up ready to go.

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with my search ground to a halt, the double shredded beef tostada, from el pollo loco i started to wonder if this was all worth it. was anyone else wondering who was responsible >> with my search ground to a for this obscure bankruptcy provision? halt i started to wonder if this was all worth it. was anyone else wondering who was responsible for this obscure bankruptcy position?

>> i do wonder why student loan debt is exempted from the normal bankruptcy protections? how did that happen? >> great minds? >> 44 million americans there. was one other guy. but nobody was listening to him either. >> they cannot discharge this loan in bankruptcy. congress change the bankruptcy, lawmaking student loan debts non dischargeable in bankruptcy. college student loan is with you for a lifetime. we need to restore discharge ability in bankruptcy in salons once and for all. >> senator durbin even introduced a bill to fixed bankruptcy laws. but that seemed to be going nowhere. >> for goodness sakes, how can we ignore the crushing student loan debt across america? >> who had caused this whole mess? i racked my brain for clues from all the conversations i had had over the past three years.

>> federal loans are handed from the treasury directly to the parliament of education. >> we met with the department of ed officials. >> anyone at the department of education was around the time. >> my name is jamie and studly and i was acting general counsel for the u.s. department of education. >> maybe jaime could point me in the right direction. >> 1998 education act made federal loans not dischargeable in bankruptcy. you call that piece of it? >> i recall it as a matter of law and i don't recall -- we knew from the beginning that was a problem. >> yes, it's very relevant today in ways we could never have foreseen. >> but i think we teed up a lot of really important ideas in the bill, and i was very enthusiastic about different

approaches. >> oh yeah, income based repayment. >> i've seen some of those fun videos. >> payments are based on your income so if you make that leap a little. >> for these helpful looking programs memory there would be no need for bankruptcy. just looking look at the federal governments convenient tools instead. >> if your situation changes, this might lower your payments substantially. >> lower monthly payments? now that sounds like a deal. i hear about these income based repayment plans or public service loan forgiveness. what's the matter with those? >> they are all cruel jokes. the borrowers are the punchline. millions of followers who had tried for these various income driven repayment programs have been disqualified for one reason or another. >> even if you do get into these programs, they still have ways to enrage you. >> i had an income paced replacement plan.

that was a very important affordable plan, but the balance is kept growing because i wasn't paying enough to cover the interests. so you're actually really paying on a while the loan grows. and that really screwed with my mental health. i was so overwhelmed emotionally by this landslide that i was standing on. no matter what i did, it just kept sliding. >> in terms of income based repayment plans, putting aside whether it was a good idea, do you feel it has been a success in terms of its implementation? >> it has been a challenge to explain. he had has some inherent weaknesses. i'm sure in retrospect everyone involved wishes that had gone more smoothly. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> with my search hitting a wall, i needed new leads and a drink.

i feel a little stop, honestly. what's new on your end on this? >> i have a much people and my network. i knew people working on the committees of the time. >> aides that we're working on the house education? >> senate health committee. interesting result, though. one, we talked about how this big bipartisan bill and everyone wants to see it go but there is a quest to try to find pay force. >> what do you mean by pay for 's? >> places where they could save money, cut federal spending in order to increase spending on something else. it wasn't to drive this policy. it was looking for money to pay for the bill. one of the place they go for the ideas is the clinton administration, which it turns out included in this bankruptcy change and the recommendations that they send over to congress earlier in the process. this idea actually came over from the clinton department of education. >> the department of ed! i knew it! >> who is at the administration, one name that has come up is this guy david long anacker, assistant secretary of education.

would have been involved in discussions between congress and the administration. >> -- >> he was a thought person in higher ed. he was a huge player in integrity, ethical, and incredibly smart. >> david? hello and g a r b and c c k e r. he is terrific. >> we do things so that the system can work a lot better. let me present to you david. his assistant secretary for postsecondary education. >> thank you mister secretary, what i will do. >> i watched hours of his video, keep it seemed to have a particular focus. >> and addition, if the student hasn't repay their loans. we will go after them. and we've been doing a lot of that, we have been using wage garnishment, and we have been using irs refund collections in

the program. very successfully over the last years. so we will go after them very aggressively. and very quickly. we collect every dollar that can be collected, we pursue defaulted loans with a vengeance, we use collection agencies, we garnish your wages. >> according to the president, mr. -- retired from higher education to pursue his true love. he was now a commercial truck driver in colorado. ssive technology. all the exhilaration, none of the compromise. the audi e-tron family. progress that moves you. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash.

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uspenseful music] take a lap, rookie. ♪ even if longanecker wasn't our guy, i wondered, >> even if he wasn't our guy, i with such a long career in education, wondered, with such a long career in education, at the scene the damage that this provision called? from spiraling costs, a massive debt, and ruing nearing lives?

♪ ♪ ♪ >> as i sat there preparing, i started to get nervous. was this another dead and? was i just wasting everyone's time? let's talk about a decision that was made in 1998. during the reauthorization. talking to the congressional staffers at the time, with respect, specifically to the provision that barred student loans from being discharged through bankruptcy. what had essentially happened to that. >> there are a number of programs that people wanted. they went to the education department, and your ideas. and that's where that idea develop. does that sound about right? >> that's fair representation. >> it was now clear, we had

finally found our man. >> so it's 20 years since the rear authorization act, and the bankruptcy in particular, how much time have you sent reflected on that decision that you made let back then? >> that's the most dominant thing i have thought about since then. i have been many conversations defended what i think was a reasonable decision. that these are obligations that people make, and when people except an application, they have a responsibility to attend to that, and the students actually defaulted, they were not acting in good faith. >> you just made a point that people should meet their obligations, like you said, but given that what the intention was. but what the result has been 20 years in, does that give you some pause and make you think maybe it is worth reopening

that option for bankruptcy? >> now. i can understand why people would come at that. but that's why we created the income contingent plans. a fail safe for people cody fault on their loan. >> but then millions -- there is are tons of reasons why people default. and we are 20 years in, and we see how it's implemented, does that concern here? >> yes but the answer i don't think it's to go to something that i think i don't think has the rights of responsibility. i think that income contingent is a more reasonable response than simply discharging the loan and bankruptcy. >> okay, but do you believe in bankruptcy in general? just as a general? >> yes, i believe in bankruptcy as a general provision for people who really get hammered. giving them a chance to start over. >> right, look, we have pretty

much dischargeable bankruptcy for any that you can have. you can go to vegas tonight, lose $10 million, and discharge it through bankruptcy. they have one exception is people through student loan, struggling with that, so are you -- about these people who have been singled out? >> well i look at it as -- but you mentioned the borrowers, most of them got the debt. and we're doing so comfortably. but are comfortable with debt. >> struggling. >> yes, but they know that they're struggling. most of them are ripping their debt, the fall rates are higher than they've been but they still aren't terribly high. >> sorry to interject but i think it is possible for someone to have a tremendous amount of debt, not the filed, and have been struggling because of that.

we now know that there is more trouble than there was then. and now they've stagnated. does that trouble you at all? >> yes, but not convincingly. >> these people are paying their loans well until their twenties, 30s, 40s, often into their 50s. and now they're not buying homes as a result. they're buying cars, later starting families later. and we can trace it back to economic problems that recur as a result of that. do you think it's working? >> yeah, i mean, you've got 44 million borrowers. so i think that it works. >> i admit, the man behind the bankruptcy rule. and he was not backing down. i still believe that the right incentive, there was a safeguard here. >> but you have the responsibility pay your loan. >> for the next hour, he had a range of opinions to support his position. >> my daughter paid off her

entire student loan. and she was the income contingent program. because her dad move about. it. >> we have an awful lot of students who are in never never land today. but on average, their debt isn't all that substantial. >> he concluded with a final thought that encapsulated his position more than anything else. >> for the one that put themselves in exceptional debt, they were the damn fools, not the federal government. and they should accept the responsibility for that foolishness. >> thanks so much. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> believe it or not, he was right. this mess was caused by damn fools. only, it was indecent people like billion, allen, or marcella. but the damn fools and watching ten who turned a blind eye for decades, and never tried to stop it, or fix it. now, it was time for solutions.

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- hey, i'm michael torpey. >> my show "paid off" is the only game show - if you can't get on the show, i saw another easy fix on "ellen." >> the good news? - give you $50,000-- - oh, my god! there's an easy way to pay student that. if you can't get on the show. i found another easy fix on ellen. >> i'll give you $50,000. >> there was always that cancellation idea. >> somebody has to foot the bill! >> if you watched a certain network, you might think that the only one who supported that idea, where crunchy liberal activists. like this happy. >> i am not a happy, i wish i had been one earlier. >> this is wayne johnson, and his background is not what you would expect. >> i was with the trump administration. >> that is right, under trump, wayne under saw the federal government student loan program. and from his position, he could see just how insanely far gone the system had become.

what wayne did next would become a big news story. >> a top official in the federal student loan program resigning this week, calling the system quote, fundamentally broken. >> he quit, a conservative former trump official hit the media to unveil the plan to cancel student debt. >> he would forgive more debt than plants proposed by contendant -- >> -- got some attention. >> if we do not fix it, what will happen? >> if we do not think that we will continue to have an ever increasing destruction of fabric of america. it's that profound. >> was when cherokee was not a hippie? >> no, i am not a happy i am a pretty straightforward guy. >> you guys were told here is what you need to do to get ahead and if you do it you are not ahead. how does that make you feel? the promise that's false? >> it was a promise that's false but the solution is for

sure. for sure. >> -- had that collective. a group pushing for student cancellation with a caveat. >> i mean, we advocate for full cancellation. but if the president way to cancel all dead tomorrow, we would have to figure out next semester. so how do we figure that out? the answer is the, college. >> our grants -- >> they lived their whole life to send their kids to school. and we grew up in rural china. the thing that they always say is that those merchants -- so paying for school wasn't a problem. they said, we're gonna do this no matter what. whatever it takes we are going to pay for whatever school i get into. >> and the only way to pay for college, unless you are witches, with alone. >> meanwhile, as the cancellation discussion he had it up. senator durbin seem to be making progress on the bill to restore bankruptcy protection. >> i've been working with my

colleagues across the aisle, to restore the bankruptcy act. this is an issue that i have dealt with for a long time. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i'll take it to my favorite coffee shop. >> oh cool. i check back in with allen, on the latest development that could finally end his 17 year pursuit. >> we have a bipartisan bill, just came in. dick durbin is the sponsor. >> today, i have a senior bell was senator -- and i thank you for joining me in this bipartisan effort. >> this is a serious issue. and i think that the fresh start to the bankruptcy act will provide important relief to students. >> our bill would restore the ability for student loans -- this tenure loan would help students without encouraging strategic bankruptcy. >> there is a ten year waiting

period which is not perfect. but that is where the solution to this problem begins. >>6w bipartisan support, it might actually have a chance of passing. right? >> is that bail moving at all? is anything happening with that as far as you know? >> i do not know. >> you are the foremost authority on this. >> i do not know. i think we're close, but i do not know. i have to get some cat food. >> i did not blame allen for feeling nervous about it. after nearly two decades of fighting for change, i want it to get my hopes of either. >> sorry about that. >> but a bipartisan bill introduced, it was time to work every connection that i had. to get a meeting with my former

boss. we are in washington d.c. now, we are headed to the capitol. -- and this is the guy who basically can help, basically solve it. he is the majority leader. and nobody gets access to talk to a senator like this. so i feel fortunate to have this opportunity. but he has questions for other people going through this. and get answers to these questions that affect all of them. so that's what's going through my head right now. it's basically do, not screw this up.

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this was my chance to get the senate majority leader comcast business. powering possibilities™. on board with my mission. [suspenseful music] >> this was my chance to get ♪ the senate majority leader on board with my mission. ♪ ♪ ♪ [inaudible] >> compared to long care. >> i had just 20 minutes alone with the senator, and i need to use the time productively. >> have to get moving guys.

we are taking too long. [inaudible] okay thank you. [inaudible] okay good. >> okay, senator there is 45 million people who are -- in this country. what was the tipping point for you? what was a turning point when you realize this is an epic crisis? >> whenever i walked around the united states. not even young people but middle age people. grandparents are talking about the burden of debt. i did not take the job i wanted because of student debt. i wouldn't get married because of student debt. i had to move somewhere because of student at. it discombobulated peoples lives. at a significant rate. >> we're doing the right thing, we tell them, or card, go to college, get an education. and then. boom >> i went to college. i did not come from a wealthy her, i worked my way through school. but i got out of debt free. and the path, it just sprung out of control.

i've been pushing president biden to do this. >> to do that? when you say do this. >> $50,000 of student debt, he can do it with a click of a pen. now going through mitch mcconnell, but just doing it on his own. i'm going to wear this mask at the floor of the senate. and until president biden signs that documents in the white house, that says $50,000 of student debt is canceled. >> you have the senate majority later, a very powerful person. why would you want the president to do it instead of going legislatively? >> in the senate, you would need 60 votes to cancel the student debt, that would mean getting some republican votes, and republicans we haven't had any republicans who support this. we have every single democrat on board for this. so if i had to put it on the senate floor it would be a struggle. it might not pass. >> well, i know about one purpose of that already had bipartisan support. >> senator durbin has a bill that would make it that student debt could finally be discharged through bankruptcy,

the way every other. if you're doing income tax you can. >> that would be -- stacked against the kids. about the students. >> wait a minute, had durbin not lobbied you about the bill? >> let me ask you this, senator bill durbin had the bill. >> -- >> mr., it's called the 1998 higher education act. it passed unanimously. it passed at the very last minute, someone snuck in a two line provision that said you can't just charge the student debt through bankruptcy. >> really? >> we were trying to figure out where it came from. it turns out the person whose idea it was, was a bureaucrat with the department of education. and that guy now is a truck driver in colorado. so, i mean, i thought i tell you that. but knowing what you know about these things, does that surprise you? >> yeah. that's really weird. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so, much appreciated. >> so, senator durbin has a

bill that would reverse that provision. so now you would be able to do it through bankruptcy. >> yeah. that senators just fine and said that they would be into that. >> that's something that i would look at. >> thank you. >> appreciate. it [inaudible] >> appreciate it. >> this was big! i could not wait to call allen back in wisconsin. >> how are you doing? >> pretty good, how is it going over there. >> we met with schumer. >> really? >> yeah, i asked them about bankruptcy. do you know about this bill that terrebonne has got? that senator coren and hawley are on right now? he didn't seem to fully be aware of the bill. >> i thought he would have known about the bill already. >> while, listen, he was very amenable. he listened to it on the merits,

and substance, and all that stuff. i think is gonna look into it. >> great. >> look, it's on his radar now, ominous send it to his team tonight. and it's better off than we were three hours ago. >> wow. okay man. that is awesome. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> not long after my meeting with senator schumer. he continued to bang the drum for a cancellation. at a press conference on student debt. >> we are a great coalition. >> but what most didn't notice, was a response he get an up post conference q&a. it's outrageous, he said, that other people get to declare bankruptcy but students cannot. this was exciting! with real momentum on the bankruptcy issue it was time to speak with the man himself. . senator dick durbin. >> hello!

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- nice to meet you. i'm blake. [inaudible] >> police are what your step. >> nice to meet you, i am blake. >> hi blake, thank you for setting with us. we are focused on student debt. particularly the issue of bankruptcy. 1998 higher education act. there is a one or two line provision that was not an. you are in congress at the time, do you remember that? >> it really was not even publicized. it was not brought to the attention of most members. it wasn't until it was all over, you look back, and you say oh my god. two lives in a bill. change the lives of millions of americans. >> you are the person who has been pushing for a solution to this? you have a bill that would essentially reverse this. does this bill have a chance of actually getting past? >> take a look at the composition of the senate. and you look for odd couples. certainly, dick durbin and john cornyn of texas would be that

couple. i like john, but we do not agree on but. and we put a bill together that says that we will reach a point, after ten years, of your student loan. where you can discharge it in bankruptcy. >> you met with senator cornyn, i think that's important. senator hawley is also supporting this bill. so you have a real bipartisan group of senators that you put together. do we have the votes for this? >> first thing is first, committees. the bill has to go through a committee. >> i wanted to get a pledge from the senator, that he would move the bill to the committee asap. >> bring it to the committee, but you are the chair? >> i am chairman of the senate judiciary committee. and john cornyn sits on the committee. holly as well. so the three of us is the starting point. we need 12 points on the committee. >> and you say that you are determined to do that this session? >> yes. >> that is terrific. >> it easier said than done in the senate, when you say you have to bring an idea to the floor. then you have to beg schumer to give us a piece of the calendar

to call the bill. it takes some time. >> i don't know, we spoke to schumer very recently. and he said that he's very interested in this. and he seemed open to it. i don't think really it wasn't just the radar. and a couple of days ago, he was quoted saying, absolutely. people who are having student debt should be able to discharge through bankruptcy. so i'm giving you and -- you should be able to get it through the committee. his eyes are more open than he used to be. >> we absolutely need him, he decides which bills go before the senate. and his commitment is essential. >> i don't want to give people false hope, but do you think there's a chance? >> i think there is a chance. and we are going to try everything legitimately possible to move this bill through the senate. >> thank you very much! appreciate, it thank you for your time. discussions with schumer may be different, but when i met him in november he said he was definitely open to it. and i got him the information. and i was shocked, i read this article, he was asked about student loan. and it was on his radar.

when i met with him a couple of months, ago it wasn't. -- thank you senator. thank you so much. awesome, thank you. something major just happened. i don't know if it was evidence, it's probably sounded at a boring conversation. i know things moved slowly in the senate, but this sounded like actual progress. alex. hi i just finished talking with urban. and a pretty big update. i think that schumer is convinced. and he said that he pledged to me, that he would bring it to the committee. the session. >> [inaudible] this is the solution to the problem right there. >> that's what's happening. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ >> we are part because of our student loans. it makes me angry. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> [inaudible] >> i am protesting, i am burning it's all. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [applause] >> and a time we start together,

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and welcome to ayman. i am -- live in for a man multi dean. coming up this hour, of time for trump as the manhattan da closes in, they deadlock to claims of hoodwinked, into other legal battles. plus, the lawsuit complicating foxes case against dominion voting system. and, the most important election of the year, i will talk with the chair of wisconsin's democratic party on the upcoming supreme court race that could affect everything, from